Liu Guofu: Let's say illegal entry. Why are there so many cases? It might be due to our border inspection. Also, why do some dare to stay in China illegally? Don't they know when their visas will expire? If they know and still dare to challenge the law, what does this imply? It implies there are problems with our administration. In other words, the punishment might not be severe enough or the inspection is incomplete. And therefore, some think they can get away.

冯欣：那您认为我们国家对外国人来华的政策近十年来有什么变化？

Feng Xin: In your opinion, how has China's policy on foreigners changed over the last 10 years?

刘国福：总体上来讲应该在不断地放松。08年有一个引进海外高层次人才的千人计，是中组部牵头的，给高层的外国人很多特殊的待遇、出境的便利、永久居留的便利、包括在华生活的便利、甚至入籍。

Liu Guofu: Generally speaking, the government has been continuously relaxing its policies. In 2008, there was a visa program for attracting foreigners with special talents. It was led by the Organization Department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China. It offers a lot of special treatment to foreigners with talent, like the convenience of leaving the country, permanently staying in the country and even acquiring Chinese citizenship.

04年还有一个《外国人在华永久居留管理办法》，允许他们申请永久居留, 刚才举了几个法规的例子。另外一个就是（对）“三非”的打击，像广东、浙江都做过，北京好像也不是第一次。

In 2004, officials passed the Measures for the Administration of Examination and Approval of Foreigners' Permanent Residence in China. Then there are also crackdowns on the "three illegals". Guangdong and Zhejiang province both did that before. So did Beijing.

冯欣：那您认为我们国家对外国人来华的政策未来会向什么方向发展？

Feng Xin: In your opinion, where will China's policies on foreigners head to in the future?

刘国福：移民政策的一个主要目的就是欢迎能为本国做出贡献的人。你能为我们国家做出贡献，我就欢迎你来，你做不了贡献，甚至还是害群之马，就反对你来。简单来讲就是这个意思，因为人流动可以流向中国大陆，也可以流向日本、台湾地区。

Liu Guofu: The main purpose of immigration law is to welcome those who can make contributions to a host country. If you can make contributions to our country, we will welcome you. If you can't, and even do us harm, we will stop you from coming. That's it. People can flow to the Chinese mainland as well as to Japan and Taiwan.

还有和国际上相竞争，它是不断发展和变化的。它是有弹性的、有竞争性的一种法律资格，不能简单地要门槛高或者门槛低。能不能设计出或者制定出更精巧、更完善的法律制度去吸引我们需要的、能为本国做出经济发展贡献的外国人，而且也能够制定出精巧的、很严密的法律制度去堵住那些我们不欢迎的人进来，这是出境入境管理法的宗旨。

Also, countries compete with each other on receiving immigrants. It's a changing and evolving issue. It's flexible and competitive. We can't simply make it easier or harder for people to come. Can we create an elaborate system of laws to attract those we need, those who can make contributions to our economic development as well as to stop those who are not welcome from coming? That should be the principle of immigration law.

冯欣：那从打击“三非”外国人这件事我们看到更深层次的一个问题，那就是怎样对待来华的外国人，那么对这个问题您有什么看法？

Feng Xin: Well, from the police's action on the "three illegals", we see a deeper question, which is how China should treat its foreign population. What do you think?

刘国福：人员的跨国流动是有一定规律的。越发达的国家，国际人口的流动越频繁，占本国的比例越高。发达地区都（达到）10％至15％，一些北欧（地区）达到20％，北京现在1％还不到，远远落后于发达国家，所以它们是有些规律的。

Liu Guofu: The international flow of population has its own rules. The more developed a country is, the more frequently its population flows and the higher percentage of its population foreigners take up. In developed regions, the percentage usually reaches 10% to 15%. Some regions in northern Europe even reach 20%. But Beijing hasn't even reached 1%, which is far from developed countries. So, there are certain rules.

这个法的目的就是调整符合人员国际流动的规律，比如说外国人想到中国来，你就不能硬堵，不能违反人口流动的规律。该欢迎的还是给他更多的渠道，给他更多的方式让他进来，不该进来的那一定要严格打击。